[00:00:00] ANDY:  that's something that's quite unique to bell ringing. 

[00:00:02] LINDSAY: Yeah.

[00:00:03] ANDY: I know, if you play golf, you can go off and play on someone else's course. 

[00:00:07] LINDSAY: But you don't play with them, do you? 

[00:00:08] ANDY: No. 

[00:00:08] LINDSAY: Yeah, so this, it's nice. And you learn a little bit more about their tower and their difficulties and what their ring is. It was really good. Really good. [

 [Bells Ringing]

Introducing the Episode

[00:00:22] CATHY: Hello, I'm Cathy Booth and this is the Fun with Bells podcast. In this episode, in a fun round table., I talk to three new ringers who tell us about their experiences this year of learning to ring for the coronation, And why they are now obsessed with ringing.

Recruiting New Ringers

[00:00:38] CATHY: Jessica Hay, Lindsay Cawte and Andy Pearce. 

Interview with New Ringer: Jessica Hay

[00:00:43] CATHY: First of all, I'd like to, ask Jessica. Jessica, what was your experience of bell ringing before you took it up?

[00:00:50] JESSICA: Zero. I enjoyed listening to them when I heard them. They were wonderful, but that was it. 

[00:00:55] CATHY: And why did you take up ringing? 

[00:00:57] JESSICA: Because I love bells. I couldn't believe that they were asking people to ring. So I was like, Me, me, please, please! 

Interview with New Ringer: Lindsay Cawte

[00:01:05] CATHY: Lindsay, what was your experience of bell ringing before you took it up this year?

[00:01:08] LINDSAY: Hardly any, but I rang a little bit with my Dad. I probably touched the Sally once and pulled the handstroke once and that was it really. 

[00:01:16] CATHY: And why did you take it up this year? 

[00:01:18] LINDSAY: Well I've always been interested in it but I've never really had the courage to do it or the opportunity I suppose, but then somebody in our village rang and was talking to me about it and I was going to do it and then the Queen died and they were all wrapped up with the funeral so there wasn't really time to do it then and then the Ring for the King came and I thought "whey hey this is my chance" so that's how I joined.

[00:01:37] CATHY: 

Interview with New Ringer: Andy Pearce

[00:01:37] CATHY: Andy, what was your experience of bell ringing before this year? 

[00:01:40] ANDY: I learned to ring I think when I was in my late teens at Titchbourne. And then got married, and like a lot of things, it fell by the wayside, we moved away. And so, 40 odd years later, when the Facebook, notice came out, my wife spotted it, and said, wouldn't this be a good idea, because you could get back ringing, and, I could learn.

So, that's what we did. When I was at Titchbourne, we had very basic ringing. We would ring only call changes. And also with the whole, ring called out, not just the three to two and things like that. So it's been a little bit challenging there, just learning that step. 

[00:02:25] CATHY: Okay, and how did you find learning this time versus learning originally?

[00:02:30] ANDY: Ringing, I felt I got back into that fairly quickly. What I have learnt since is what I'm doing wrong. So before when I was ringing, I might get out of place and someone would say, little bit closer or not so close and I wouldn't know how to correct that myself. Whereas now over the weeks I've learnt to adjust where I'm catching the sally, where I'm holding the tail end and things like that.

[00:02:59] CATHY: I heard people say that it was harder than they expected. 

Challenges in Bell Ringing

[00:03:04] CATHY: So, general question, what's hard about ringing? 

[00:03:07] LINDSAY: What's easy? 

It's difficult in that you've got a lot to think about all at the same time.

So you learn to do one thing, like you can handle the bell, that's great, and then you start doing call changes and you forget how to handle the bell. And then you get that right and they say now you've got to ring the bell up. So you manage to do that and then you forget to do call changes. It's all trying to keep everything in your mind all at the same time.

And counting. Just counting becomes impossible. 

The Complexity of Bell Ringing

[00:03:32] JESSICA: I think, I know for me watching, it just looks like people are pulling a rope up and down. It looks like the easiest thing in the world. But there's so much in there that you can't see that's being done. And then you're also really conscious of not breaking it.

A mistake's a mistake, but yeah, a bad one is not good . 

Safety in Bell Ringing

[00:03:56] LINDSAY: It's also dangerous, isn't it, if you make a mistake? 

[00:03:58] JESSICA: Yeah, I was just thinking that, put your feet on the floor. No dangly things. Like, why? Oh, you know. And then they tell you the stories. Okay. 

[00:04:07] ANDY: I've never seen anyone actually go up.

I've seen a stay break on two occasions. One from first hand. But, I'd reiterate what Lindsay said. 

The Concentration Required in Bell Ringing

[00:04:17] ANDY: It's the concentration thing. It almost needs a sort of blank concentration such that you're not concentrating on one thing specifically because I find I'm ringing perfectly well and then I start thinking about what the next change might be or somebody might move just slightly differently I'm thinking about correcting it and then everything goes.

[00:04:42] LINDSAY: Yeah, it's just that one little thing, doesn't it? And then everything goes pear shaped. I find that you take two or three steps forward, and then you seem to take four steps back, and then another step forward. I seem to get worse sometimes, before I get better again.

[00:04:56] JESSICA: Yeah, I feel like the brain can only handle so many things at one time, and when a new one comes in, it's like, oh, that's enough of that. Gotta make space for it. 

The Learning Curve in Bell Ringing

[00:05:05] CATHY: Thinking back , from the start when you started to learn to handle, how do you know where you are in terms of learning?

[00:05:15] LINDSAY: I guess it's by looking at everybody else and seeing how far you've come. What I really, not enjoy, that's not the right word, but it's quite gratifying to see people coming in right at the beginning and just doing the handstroke or just doing the sally. I think, wow. It was so difficult then, and look what we can do now.

I think that really helps, doesn't it? See how you progressed.

[00:05:33] JESSICA: Yeah, we had other Andrew come in who hadn't been for a few months, and his observation on how, he says, people are thinking differently. That was also, like you say, gratifying. Like, oh, yeah, we really, things are moving on. You forget in the little bubble, because we're all similar, moving along on, How far we've come. 

The Progression in Bell Ringing

[00:05:52] ANDY: I think it's also that everyone goes at a different sort of pace. I know I struggled with 

Plain Hunt. And it's getting better. But again it comes the combination of bell handling. And remembering where you're supposed to be going with the bell, you sort of remember, you remember one bit and then you pull a little bit too hard on hand stroke and then you are out. .

The Support from Experienced Ringers

[00:06:20] LINDSAY: We've been really lucky, haven't we, with the people around us as well. 'cause I think their encouragement and they let you know where you are in different kinds of ways. So you might get asked to do something else or I think they recognize the people who are progressing at different ways.

[00:06:34] JESSICA: Building onto that, the steady ringers from the band have been absolutely instrumental to helping move us all along as well. Absolutely instrumental. Because I know I ring really differently when I'm with them. 

[00:06:47] LINDSAY: It's like anything, isn't it? It's like playing tennis or a sport. You play much better against people who are good. You see it's much easier to ring with a band you know what they're doing, rather than if you've got five learners, it's just pandemonium.

Tower Open Day

[00:07:03] CATHY: This is a big question, What have you done this year, ringing wise? 

[00:07:07] LINDSAY: Jessica and I had the very exciting Tower Open Day, wasn't it?

Where we rang at 17 towers. Which was mind blowing really. And that was quite interesting because it's completely different, we were talking about a different kind of subculture and it's just all these people came from all over the country thinking, whoa, this is a thing that people do. Yeah. Got no idea.

[00:07:27] JESSICA: I felt like I was at an alternate Doctor Who convention. It was great.

[00:07:33] LINDSAY: I loved it. It is a bit weird. 

[00:07:35] CATHY: And this was the Alton and Petersfield. 

[00:07:37] JESSICA: Yes. Tower Tour . 

[00:07:40] LINDSAY: It was an aid of the Ropley Bells, wasn't it? No, that was really cool. And the people were so kind. Well, most of them were kind. I think some of 'em got a bit fed up with us. . 

[00:07:47] JESSICA: Yeah. I'm not surprised, 

[00:07:49] LINDSAY: But that's fair enough. 

[00:07:50] JESSICA: Not surprised. 

Ringing for Weddings

[00:07:52] JESSICA: And then weddings.

[00:07:54] ANDY: I've done two weddings. 

[00:07:56] CATHY: How did you find those? 

[00:07:58] JESSICA: Terrified

[00:07:59] ANDY: Yeah, there's a little bit more pressure because you know that someone's paying you to do it. And you don't really want to mess it up where it's their big day outside.

[00:08:09] CATHY: So you've done an open day, you've done weddings.

What else have you guys done?

The Joy of Ringing in Winchester Cathedral

[00:08:12] ANDY: I think the highlight for me so far was ringing in Winchester Cathedral. 

[00:08:17] LINDSAY: Oh, yeah. 

[00:08:18] ANDY: Because when I was ringing previously at Titchbourne, it was something I never envisaged that I would do. It was seen as something that other people did, you know. Professional type ringers would ring in the cathedral. But to go into that wonderful building and ring those 14 bells. 

[00:08:39] JESSICA: And everyone was so welcoming as well. Really kind.. 

[00:08:44] ANDY: And going up to ring in the first session, take that bell. Yeah. Okay, fine. You've got, you've got no idea what it's gonna pull, like.

[00:08:52] JESSICA: You did really well though. You did well, 

[00:08:53] ANDY: The first session was good. The second one I got a little bit out of place and the chap there that was helping us said you need to be a little bit closer or something and I just over corrected and went I thought I was again, it's this concentration thing for one minute you think you're doing really well and then it goes and you're, oh, I messed that up completely and even that sort of thought there's then almost a little bit of panic.

You know, I've got it wrong, I've gotta get it back again. 

[00:09:25] LINDSAY: That makes it harder, doesn't it? 'cause you've got that anxiety 

[00:09:28] ANDY: Recovered from it. 

[00:09:30] LINDSAY: But the more times we do the more times we'll get used to doing it, I suppose. Well, I found about Winchester Cathedral is, you think you hold them in awe. The Winichester Cathedral ringers, 'cause some of them came to the practice at Old Alresford.

Didn't they? And I can remember asking where they ring. They said it was at the cathedral. Wow! And they're all, no it's not like that at all. And it really isn't like that at all, is it? They're very welcoming to say, we're all bell ringers. It doesn't matter where you ring, it's just a bell. But they are all very different.

That's what's really nice about doing the tower tours, isn't it? You really notice that every single bell is different, every rick's different, every church is different, and even the bells in that church will be different tomorrow because the weather changes them and the humidity, it's really weird.

Ring for the King

[00:10:12] JESSICA: I'd agree with you, Winchester Cathedral was a big one for me. It was very big. I got a bit emotional, it was a very big day. but the ring for the King for me was it was like, not even just ringing for the King, there were so many things that were fabulous about the day. Ringing with our band, this is what we'd all been working towards.

So many people from the group came and rang. Watching the coronation on the TV. At Easton, the crowd that were there and everyone was like super happy and jolly and cake and bells were going everywhere. We were absolutely exhausted by the end of the day. I had my first set of blisters. 

[00:10:52] LINDSAY: That was a big thing, wasn't it?

Quite early on, I think, if you look back at how much we've progressed since then. I think because it was quite early on, it was a bigger thing. Does that make sense? Because it was like, because it was... Amazing that I'd got that far in such a short time. And that, I call them the grown up ringers. The grown up ringers have been doing it for longer.

Experienced ringers. even they found it pretty good as well I think, yeah. 

Jessica's First Quarter peal

[00:11:15] JESSICA: I think for me also one of my highlights was my first Quarter peal. So I covered, I got it right! 

Striking Competition

[00:11:22] CATHY: You haven't mentioned the striking competition. 

[00:11:25] JESSICA: No! We won! We won!

Next Year

[00:11:31] CATHY: So of all those things, which would you like to do again next year?

[00:11:35] LINDSAY: All of those things. All of those things again. 

[00:11:37] JESSICA: Except the King, this year.

[00:11:41] LINDSAY: I think I really like the tower tours, I really like going to different towers because it's so interesting because I don't go to church, so I don't see churches, but you go into a church which has always got an amazing history or amazing architecture, there's always a story, and there's always a story behind one of the bells or the tower or something.

So I find that really interesting, and meeting all the other people. 

[00:12:02] JESSICA: I was going to say the same thing, the tower tour.

[00:12:04] LINDSAY: Was really interesting. 

[00:12:07] CATHY: What's the most surprising thing about bell ringing that you've found out this year? 

[00:12:11] LINDSAY: I think it's what Jessica said. It's so much more difficult than you think it's going to be. And you think it's just ringing a bell, and then they say, Oh yeah, now you can ring a bell, now you can do this.

What? I thought I could do it. I've got to do this as well. And now you can do call changes. You've got to learn some methods. So it's all the extra things. It's never static. You're never at the top. There's always something else to learn, isn't there? And I was quite surprised at that.

Typical Bell Ringers

[00:12:32] JESSICA: I think for me it's the subculture.

How, there's this whole world that moves around. Like the muggles. Nobody knows what's going on and it's a fascinating pique and I feel I've not really, I've just experienced some of it.

[00:12:49] LINDSAY: It's interesting because they don't really shout about themselves . They just go in, ring the bells and go home.

It's just a thing that happens without any pomp or excitement or it's just something, which is quite nice I think. And it's a definite particular kind of person that does bell ringing. 

[00:13:04] CATHY: Describe them. 

[00:13:05] LINDSAY: Oh gosh! Well you're looking at three! , 

[00:13:10] ANDY: it appears to be a sort of closed club. Everybody knows that the bells get rung in Alresford because they hear them. But nobody knows who does it. 

[00:13:22] LINDSAY: You don't even think about it do you? 

[00:13:24] ANDY: Unless you happen to be a bell ringer or a member of the clergy that see people disappearing up the staircase into the bell tower. 

[00:13:31] LINDSAY: They just hear the bells and think, oh there's the bells, don't think of somebody at the end of the rope pulling the rope and making the bell ring.

They all seem to be beer drinkers, which I think is a huge disadvantage to me, because I don't like beer. [laughs] It's true though, isn't it?

[00:13:44] JESSICA: But I also thought it was, you had to be part, very well established something, clique or organisation. 

[00:13:52] ANDY: 40 years ago, in villages, where they had ringers in the village, then younger people in the village would get like myself asked if they wanted to go and ring.

Now, villages have changed. So people don't work where they live and so aren't quite so known in not the same sort of pub atmosphere that it doesn't happen. 

[00:14:18] LINDSAY: It's not so much of a community is there? And I think it's the young people. 

The Challenges of Recruiting (Young) People

[00:14:20] LINDSAY: When I went down to Devon, I rang with the ringers in the village where we were staying and they were saying they've had no new recruits even for Ring for the King because there's nobody young who lives in the village.

[00:14:32] CATHY: What can we do about it? Oh yeah. How can we get all young people? 

[00:14:36] LINDSAY: Well I think some villages don't have them because there's no work for them so they go and move to the cities so they don't have a population of young people which you can't really do much about I think. I think publicising it in schools I think would be quite good.

Things like Scouts, Duke of Edinburgh Award, all those things that encourage people to do new skills. But it does seem to come from parents a lot of the time, I think, because my Dad used to know how to ring a bell, so that's how I knew about it. 

[00:15:04] ANDY: I think possibly the other challenge is that if you've got a tower with six bells, You may have six or seven regular ringers.

And you've got room for one or two to learn. And then you've reached capacity. And the void for ringers... are the towers where there aren't anyone ringing and how you actually manage that, I don't know. 

[00:15:34] LINDSAY: If no one's ringing, then nobody can teach the new ringers how to ring. 

[00:15:36] JESSICA: Yeah, I think that's an interesting point that. Because if they can't, or don't know how to teach, that in itself is a barrier. An additional one to what's been described already. 

[00:15:51] ANDY: And you need to have... The churches with towers with serviceable bells that do services as well. Yeah. And in this area, we obviously got Old Alresford and Alresford that have serviceable bell Towers.

[00:16:07] LINDSAY: It's like our church in Avington. There aren't very many services. They call it a celebration church or something like that. So they only have Christmas, Easter and there hasn't been a band to ring there. Well, there haven't been enough of a band to ring there. 

[00:16:21] ANDY: So if you were to set up something in Avington, you'd be ringing for practices. 

[00:16:27] LINDSAY: For what? 

[00:16:28] ANDY: And that would be about it. 

Well, there's no reason why you can't ring for your own enjoyment.

[00:16:35] CATHY: I had the question about encouraging more young people to take up bell ringing. was there anything else to add to that? 

Keeping a Tradition Alive

[00:16:41] JESSICA: It was something that I thought about before, about the type of person that bell ringing would appeal to. 

[00:16:49] LINDSAY: Appeal, very good. 

[00:16:52] JESSICA: So what brought me in was the, tradition and history and like you said, the stories of all the different places you go and see.

And I think there's an interesting, I don't know if it's an emergence or re emergence of like folk history and people looking at like arts and crafts and looking at the traditions of around where they live that I think is coming up again. And I think it would be good to ride that wave because it's what appeals to me about bell ringing, not the complexity or anything.

Um, well there's different things appeal, that's one of the things about it I find so interesting is this. So many different types of things that people will enjoy. That bell ringing will scratch an itch. And for me it's about the tradition and keeping that alive and making the bell sound off. 

[00:17:38] LINDSAY: It's part of the countryside, isn't it? The sound of church bells. 

[00:17:41] JESSICA: And that's not something that I see in the messaging or anything. But it's definitely what would appeal to me. I don't know, if I look at the younger people, they go back into, like, vintage is super fashionable and hand making and going back to small little communities and it's that for me something that I don't see.

What is it About Bell Ringing that Keeps You Coming Back

[00:18:02] CATHY: So you guys have obviously been bitten by the bell ringing bug. 

[00:18:05] LINDSAY: Gosh, yes. Very badly. 

[00:18:09] CATHY: Why is that? What is it about bell ringing that keeps you coming back? 

[00:18:15] LINDSAY: I think it's that being able to overcome a challenge. I think I'm determined that it's not gonna beat me and now I can do it something I can feel proud about, I suppose.

 And just going to meet the other people and all the stories be ringing a bell and say, did you know this bell does this, this and this? And it was cast in the 14th century in the church. I'd think. Wow. That's the bell I'm ringing. Oh, . and also it's just progressing, isn't it? As doing some more, as you said, it's that learning challenge, I think.

I dunno why I'm obsessed. I just dunno why. Yeah. It's so weird.

[00:18:46] JESSICA: I know. I'm the same. I'm the same. I think for me, In addition to what you're saying, it's the people. I think if the people weren't as engaging and supportive, I probably wouldn't have carried on. That for me is a big thing about why I would want to stay.

But also the fact that I can do this until I die, and there'll always be something new and interesting around the corner. It's this like huge breadth. of things to do and learn and places to go see and people to meet that it'll just never run out. so it's not like there's an end game for it. And that appeals to me quite a lot.

[00:19:24] LINDSAY: Maybe climbing up the tower. 

[00:19:27] JESSICA: No, I mean, you've seen some of the people that climb up the towers. They've got their sticks and they're and they're like, no, they're going up there. 

[00:19:34] LINDSAY: But I think that's a good thing I think that's probably why they're still going, isn't it? Because they're determined to ring a bell. 

[00:19:38] JESSICA: It's an incentive and a passion that people have, which I think spurs you on, to live a better quality of life.

[00:19:45] ANDY: My wife, we're driving around somewhere, she sees a church and says. "I wonder if that's got bells in it?" And we were in Jersey the other weekend and we were waiting to get on a coach and the bells started ringing in St Helier.

And she said, I wonder what they're ringing? How many bells have they got? And I'm trying to count them. And whereas before you'd hear bells ringing, you'd say, oh that's nice, bells ringing. Now you listen to them and you think. Yeah, that's striking. It's about right. You may not be able to pick, or I can't yet, pick the order of the bells that are being rung. You know when someone gets a little bit close or a little bit, a bit wide? 

[00:20:25] JESSICA: Yes - oh that number 2 

[00:20:28] LINDSAY: you've also got always somebody to talk to. At a wedding yesterday, and they were ringing the bells, they had a, I don't know what it's called, but it wasn't a full circle ringing, they just had a little rope they were pulling.

[00:20:38] CATHY: Oh, the Elacombe chimes? 

[00:20:39] LINDSAY: i I don't know, they were tubular bells, so they were like in a case, so I was talking to her about them. But you've always got somebody get to go and talk to them anybody who's ringing a bell is going to talk to somebody else who knows about bell ringing. 

[00:20:52] JESSICA: Yes, correct 

[00:20:54] ANDY: It's the people, for some strange reason, the people tend to be reasonably social and 

[00:21:01] LINDSAY: beer drinkers. 

[00:21:02] ANDY: Yeah. And also, this whole thing about, if you get something wrong... You might get a rather stern look perhaps, or a closer, but after that it's all gone again. 

[00:21:18] JESSICA: But it's all constructive.

[00:21:20] LINDSAY: Exactly, they want us to do it, they want us to get it right because they want some more people to ring with. 

[00:21:24] JESSICA: I was ringing for a wedding, the last wedding I rang for, and it was all really experienced ringers. And I went up and I said, I'm really, what are we going to do? I said, I'm really sorry. I'm the limiting factor because I can only do call changes. And someone went, "No, you're the enabling factor because we can ring eight bells now." And then I was like, oh! 

[00:21:44] LINDSAY: Turn it round. Yeah. 

[00:21:45] JESSICA: But this is what it's always like. So I feel like we can be really self critical of ourselves. 

[00:21:50] LINDSAY: They keep telling us to stop saying sorry.

Stop saying sorry. 

[00:21:53] JESSICA: Yeah, they just want the bells to be rung. 

Ringing Organisations Awareness

[00:21:55] CATHY: I'm aware of things like the Central Council, the Guild, ART and things like that. What are you guys aware of as far as the bell ringing community and nationally and how it's set up? 

[00:22:07] ANDY: Not very much. I think we're aware of the, local guilds. that they exist, but anything above that sort of level, I guess we know there must be something there. 

[00:22:21] JESSICA: I hear the names and like picking a little bit more information here or there. 

[00:22:26] LINDSAY: I've discovered lots and lots of bell ringing pages on Facebook. There's four or five of them that I've found so far and they sort of allude to these higher beings. "Oh, I wonder what that is." But we know about ART because that's what we've been doing, isn't it, really?

Knowing about Progress

[00:22:43] JESSICA: It was interesting, I was thinking back to a question you asked about the progress. I'm like, my tick boxes. 

[00:22:51] LINDSAY: Jessica and her tick boxes.

[00:22:51] JESSICA: I love my tick boxes. That for me has been a great thing.I'm progressing. I'm moving. So I can see the tick boxes go and it's so fun to see everyone else.

Is going through, oh you need to do this. Oh my god, it's great, going through the tick boxes. 

[00:23:08] LINDSAY: No, it's quite nice to have a record of your progress, isn't it? 

[00:23:10] JESSICA: Yeah. 

[00:23:10] LINDSAY: And a thing to work through, because otherwise it's all a bit bitty and you can't really measure. But when you know, oh you're on level one, you're on like level two, you think, wow. You've got your bronze thing and the 50 ringing things. 

[00:23:22] JESSICA: Oh, the 50 ringing things, that's great. I go through it regularly. 

[00:23:26] ANDY: I'm all over the place on that. Because I learnt to ring 40 odd years ago. A lot of the things in the book I may not have done. So I can't really tick off the ten stands and ten. Because I've never actually done it. 

[00:23:45] LINDSAY: Oh, well, we'll get you on to that. 

[00:23:46] JESSICA: We'll get you there. I'm sure Roger's checked it for you. He's done a bunch of sneaky ticks 

that I've seen . 

50 Ringing Things

[00:23:51] CATHY: You mentioned the 50 ringing things. Can you tell me a bit more about, about that? 

[00:23:56] JESSICA: Oh, it's a list of stuff to do.

I love a good list. 

[00:24:00] LINDSAY: Bell ringers and lists. 

[00:24:02] JESSICA: It, breaks it down into three things, if I recall. Your progress. Your tower and the community, I think it's like your skill, your progress. So it gives a bunch of things. To me, I think they're fun, but again, it takes the progress a little bit differently to the ART level.

So it's a bit more about what you've done outside versus your technical skill. So I was able to tick off a tower tour, which I'd done. I was able to tick off ringing on a bell heavier than 16 CWT. I still don't know what that means. But it's maybe 

[00:24:34] ANDY: A hundred weight. 

[00:24:35] JESSICA: There we go. 

[00:24:36] ANDY: Three quarters of a ton. 

[00:24:37] JESSICA: yeah, that you've rung for a special occasion.

You've rung for a wedding. That you've... You've cleaned your tower. I think that's quite fun. 

[00:24:45] LINDSAY: I've hoovered the lady birds up several times. Or rung on a mini ring.

[00:24:50] JESSICA: Or rung on a mini ring. Thank you, Roger. so yeah, it's just, I think it just takes the experience outside of your tower a little bit. The skill set of your learning progress.

[00:25:02] LINDSAY: And once you've done so many things, you get like a bronze. And then once you've done so many other things, you get a silver. And it's just a number of things, isn't it? Not necessarily in the same place. Because of things like splicing ropes and fitting a stay, I don't think that that's going to... 

[00:25:12] JESSICA: There's handbells in there as well.

[00:25:16] CATHY: And it's a book, isn't it?

[00:25:17] JESSICA: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

[00:25:18] CATHY: It's a book that you tick the things. 

[00:25:20] JESSICA: You tick! Yes.

[00:25:23] LINDSAY: And ringing in 50 different towers, is that one of them?

[00:25:26] JESSICA: Yeah, 50 different towers and then ringing on holiday is another one. Yeah, there's a bunch of technical things as well. 

Visiting Other Towers When on Holiday

[00:25:33] ANDY: How do you go about that ringing when you're on holiday? You sort of rock up when you hear it. 

[00:25:37] LINDSAY: You look on Doves, you know the website that tells you about all the towers in the UK.

And it gives you a website address of the area. And on there it usually tells you who the tower captain is, there's a contact detail. Right. So I just emailed them and they said, of course you can come. I think, ah, I'm not sure I want to now. And then Roger's saying, oh Devon, they ring differently in Devon.

I'm thinking, oh, really? Oh. But I was fine. And they were lovely.

[00:26:03] ANDY: I think that's something that's quite unique to bell ringing. 

[00:26:07] LINDSAY: Yeah.

[00:26:09] ANDY: I know, if you play golf, you can go off and play on someone else's course 

[00:26:12] LINDSAY: But you don't play with them, do you? 

[00:26:13] ANDY: No. 

[00:26:13] LINDSAY: Yeah, so this, it's nice. And you learn a little bit more about their tower and their difficulties and what their ring is. It was really good. Really good. 

Next Challenges

[00:26:21] CATHY: What are your next challenges?.

[00:26:23] JESSICA: Quarter peal on the treble is mine that I'm working towards. Roger has his goals before December. And that's, that's what I'm looking to, working towards. so I've got to develop rope sight and places, which is taking forever. But I can feel the cobwebs moving and the gears are shifting. So I'm making progress, but I'm not there yet.

But that's my goal. My next goal. 

[00:26:52] LINDSAY: I think on my list, I'm ringing the covering a Quarter Peal, I think is my next thing, but I haven't done much of that really. So I need to do a bit more. I'm sure Roger's got it in hand. 

[00:27:02] ANDY: It's all part of the master plan. I think we're all aware of the fact that there is a plan for us that we haven't seen.

[00:27:11] LINDSAY: Oh, I have seen it, I just can't remember where I put it. 

[00:27:14] JESSICA: It's printed out, it's on the tower. 

[00:27:15] LINDSAY: We're doing methods, aren't we? We're trying to do the old plain hunting and... Trying to learn ropesight, and trying to learn counting places. I think that's the next. 

[00:27:25] CATHY: Andy, are you... 

[00:27:26] ANDY: Yes, mine is a Quarter Peal covering on Saturday.

I haven't told Roger yet, but... As it's at Titchbourne, it's a... 

[00:27:37] JESSICA: Good luck. Good luck with it. 

[00:27:39] LINDSAY: I'm still waiting to ring for a wedding, but that'll probably be next summer now. 

[00:27:43] JESSICA: Wear comfortable shoes. 

[00:27:47] ANDY: It's a very hard floor in Titchbourne . 

Bell Ringing Resources

[00:27:50] CATHY: What resources have you used as part of your ringing? You mentioned 50 ringing things, you mentioned the progress books.

What about online or apps or anything like that? 

[00:28:01] LINDSAY: I've looked at some apps, I don't find them particularly helpful at the moment. I think it's really difficult to relate that to ringing a bell. For me it is. But some of them are quite good when you're learning places. But then translating that to when you're ringing bells, for me, doesn't really connect somehow.

[00:28:21] CATHY: What about online? You mentioned that you've gone online. 

[00:28:24] LINDSAY: There's quite a few videos on YouTube. It's quite good to watch other people ringing bells and especially when the ringing bells up and down was quite useful, the videos in slow motion of watching them taking up the coils. That was quite good, I think.

I don't know if it helped. It might have done, I don't know, but it just clarifies it in your mind a little bit, I think. 

[00:28:45] ANDY: Yes, I've looked at some of the YouTube ones, which followed on from when we did Winchester Cathedral, because I looked at the one of the Winchester Cathedral Tower tour, just to see how you got in and out.

And then I found another one a chap that had learnt from scratch to ring in, was it Bradford Cathedral, somewhere up north anyway, in a month. 

[00:29:11] JESSICA: I did see that. 

[00:29:12] ANDY: Did you see that one? 

[00:29:13] JESSICA: I think I saw that one. 

[00:29:14] LINDSAY: He must have rung every day. 

[00:29:16] ANDY: No, Barnsley. That's where he was ringing, Barnsley.

And I thought, oh, he must have been going at it. And then there was another one I saw about, plain hunting. And that was when they said, look to see who's following you because you're following them next. And if you remember a couple of days later, Roger mentioned it to us. So some things can help. 

[00:29:39] LINDSAY: It was a sink in gradually didn't it?

[00:29:42] CATHY: And where you find these, is it just that you Google YouTube videos?

[00:29:46] LINDSAY: We've got a WhatsApp group and we often share things on there don't we? There's several WhatsApp groups. We've got the Alresford New Ringers one. Is it called that now? We keep changing the name. And then we've got the Wimps, which are the Winchester, improvers So it's quite useful to have that, isn't it really to share stuff. 

[00:30:01] CATHY: You share things that people have found.

[00:30:03] LINDSAY: Well, I do. 

[00:30:05] JESSICA: There's also the books that you bought. 

[00:30:07] LINDSAY: Oh yes, the Steve Coleman books. 

[00:30:11] JESSICA: So what I find interesting with ringing is a lot of them go straight into methods. Like, straight in. There's not much on... Not much, but there's less on... Getting to the methods point. So his was interesting, and fun as well. The clothes, the clothes chapter. 

[00:30:29] LINDSAY: He writes really well. 

[00:30:30] JESSICA: And I also really like the quotes at the beginning of the chapters of all the things people are struggling with.

[00:30:36] LINDSAY: I think it's taken from a column he does for the Ringing World magazine, isn't it? So people write to him and say, I'm struggling with this, that and the other, and then he writes a column about it.

And I think some of his books are based on that. 

[00:30:46] JESSICA: So the plain hunt for me, what I've been looking is the ropesight, quite a lot. But I'm similar to you, where I can read it and I'm like, okay. But then there's, you're standing in the circle with a bell and I really struggle to connect the two. So the Apps are no good for me at all. At the moment anyway. They might be later, I don't know, but at the moment.

[00:31:08] LINDSAY: No. 

[00:31:08] CATHY: What about things like BellBoard and Dove and things like that? Do you look at those? 

[00:31:13] LINDSAY: Well I used Dove to find out the tower captains of various places And when we did the tower tour I'd written all the weights of all the tenor bells in all the towers we were going to which was quite useful because then you can compare them with the towers that you're used to, and think, oh, they're really light, we'd better go down to the heavy end, or they're really heavy, we might stick to the light end, so just... 

[00:31:30] JESSICA: Unless someone steals your plan. 

[00:31:32] LINDSAY: Yes. But then you wouldn't have rung the 18 hundredweight bell. 

[00:31:36] JESSICA: Correct, correct.

And it also helped in preparation for the day to know which ones had open practice night. So it really made us prioritise which ones we could ring at in the future if we wanted to. 

[00:31:49] LINDSAY: But also the thing that Roger's got in Old Alresford the simulator is quite useful because every now and again he'll show us whether what we're ringing, whether we're ringing evenly or the percentage. So that was quite useful. 

[00:32:00] ANDY: Yes, the technology does help. 

[00:32:04] JESSICA: Yeah, the simulator I'd probably say is the biggest aid that's used regularly. 

The Progress Made by New Ringers

[00:32:10] CATHY: Is there anything else that we haven't covered? 

[00:32:12] JESSICA: I think for me I do have one thing, it's in conversations with people outside, the mad progress this group has made.

[00:32:20] LINDSAY: Oh yeah, you talk to the older, more experienced, grown up ringers, and they say, oh, we weren't ringing methods for at least 18 months, and I think we've been so incredibly lucky to do it at this time, with a ring for the King, I think that's really boosted us, hasn't it? 

[00:32:36] JESSICA: Yeah, I think with Roger really pushing it forward, the experienced ringers supporting when, I know when we tell people how long we've rung for, people are really surprised at how well we're doing for that. I think we've contributed to it as well, so we always come to practice nights, ring as 

[00:32:54] LINDSAY: Every Sunday 

[00:32:55] JESSICA: often as we can, look for opportunities to ring, but they're always provided.

So like now they're plain hunt minimus I'm nagging Roger, can I do this? And he's like, next week, sorted, in the diary. So there's, I think, yeah, for me the progress that our group's made when we speak to other people is just insane. And a lot of people are really envious of it because of the support that we get. 

[00:33:20] LINDSAY: A lot of people get ten minutes a week of support. We've had two hours sometimes, three hours a week, which is brilliant. It's been really good and I think it's a really, really intensive way to learn. But I think we've really benefited. 

[00:33:34] ANDY: Particularly with the Alresford people, having Old Alresford, Monday nights, which was essentially the new ring for the King Ringers.

Okay, you had the first hour at Alresford, but having that two hour session that got people really up to speed. 

[00:33:52] JESSICA: Yeah. I think looking back on it and comparing to other people's journeys, we've been really, really lucky. 

[00:33:58] LINDSAY: And it's nice learning with a whole lot of other learners, because I guess normally you might have one or two in a tower of experienced ringers, and so you haven't really got anybody to share the experience with, where it's been really nice to have everybody new. And we have a laugh and a chat, and you learn from each other, because everybody learns differently, and somebody will give you a tip that doesn't work, and somebody else gives you another tip, and you think, actually that's worked, so it's, I think that's really helped. Yeah. 

Recommending Taking up Bell Ringing

[00:34:22] CATHY: What would you say to someone who's stumbled across my podcast, who is not a bell ringer, to them, if they're thinking about it?

[00:34:31] LINDSAY: Do it.

[00:34:33] ANDY: Give it, give it a try. Yeah you've got to have the time, which isn't, which isn't necessarily a lot. So it's a couple of hours once a week is the sort of the bare minimum if you want to make progress. But you do need to think about having the time to practice and then once you're up to ringing changes, call changes, then really you need to be thinking about ringing for the Sunday service.

[00:35:03] JESSICA: I'd agree with you. I think the time and the regularity, so if you're If you can't be consistent, you're going to really struggle to make progress. 

[00:35:12] LINDSAY: It's having patience as well. 

[00:35:14] JESSICA: And that for me is the other thing, it's not easy. So take it easy on yourself and don't think you're just going to get it straight off.

It doesn't happen. But it's one of those, you know if it's too easy, it's not worth doing. You know, so nothing, just be patient with it. 

Final Thoughts on Learning Bell Ringing

[00:35:33] ANDY: I spend two hours with gritted teeth. [laughs] 

[00:35:37] LINDSAY: Do you? 

[00:35:39] ANDY: If you're a bit of a perfectionist it can quite get to you because you're thinking I'm doing this okay, I'm doing okay, and you miss something and you're like 

[00:35:51] LINDSAY: But don't give up, keep persevering. Because it's like that thing, it's three steps forward five back. Couple forward. Four back. 

[00:36:00] JESSICA: It's not that many back. 

[00:36:02] LINDSAY: It depends who you are, Jessica. Sometimes well, also you have bad days, don't you? Some Mondays I just can't do anything right and then the next time it's fine. 

[00:36:11] JESSICA: Be patient with yourself. Be patient with the process. 

[00:36:14] LINDSAY: Don't give up. 

[00:36:15] JESSICA: It will come. It will come. 

[00:36:17] LINDSAY: I think the other thing is to find a tower that's going to suit you as well, because everyone is different and learn in a different way.

If you're with a tower and you don't really gel with them, go to a different one. There's no law to say you've got to do the one nearest. Yeah. 

[00:36:30] CATHY: Those might be the last words, but any other last words? 

[00:36:34] JESSICA: Just it's been amazing and I look forward to what's coming next. 

[00:36:38] LINDSAY: No, I can't wait. Every Monday and Thursday it's like, yay, it's bell ringing

[00:36:41] ANDY: It gives me a chance to get out of the house.

Closing Remarks and Ringing by The Society of Cambridge Youths

[00:36:48] CATHY: Thank you to my guests, Jessica Hay, Lindsay Cawte and Andy Pearce, for telling us all about their experiences of learning to ring and all the things they've crammed in, in less than a year of doing that.

[00:37:00] JESSICA: If you've enjoyed this episode, then please share it. This podcast was put together by a team. Special thanks go to Anne Tansley Thomas, Emily Roderick, John Gwynne, Emily Watts and the Society of the Cambridge Youths for the recording of their ringing. 

[Bells ringing rounds]