[00:00:00] EMILY: So, I am lucky enough to have received some funding through Arts Council England. I propose to create a new performance work centered around bell ringing. I just find it incredibly fascinating as this sort of repetitive movement, and also this very like meditative state that you can get in when you're ringing as well. That also connected with the sound, connected with the history of bells and the history of bell ringing. And then, on top of that, this very heavy community aspect of bell ringing. I'm looking for ringers who are interested in performance. I'm looking for artists who are interested in ringing, I'm really excited to see where it takes me.

[00:00:50] [Bells ringing]

[00:00:52] CATHY: hello, this is the Fun with bells podcast and my name is Cathy Booth. Emily Roderick is an artist, an arts producer and is the research and social media assistant for the Fun with bells podcast. More recently, she's acted as my sounding board in our weekly zoom calls. So Emily, we're gonna go through first your ringing, then your work as an artist and at the end, we're going to be coming to your exciting art project that's about bell ringing. So, first of all, where did you learn to ring?

[00:01:21] EMILY: Early 2012, in my village church, St. Michael's in a village in Warwickshire called Bishop's Itchington. And I was taught by my Dad, as the bells had been out of action for quite a number of years from what I remember, I think due to tower safety, so they hadn't been rung for quite a long time. And both my parents are ringers and also active in the church as well at the time, and they were invited to start almost a new band at Bishop's Itchington. So, I was taught as part of that reopening of the bells and of the tower.

[00:01:58] CATHY: And you come from a ringing family?

[00:02:00] EMILY: Absolutely, yes. My parents are both ringers. And that's actually how they met. They met in university through their ringing society, university society. And when my Dad taught me, he also taught my sister and my brother had learnt, I think a few years before at a nearby tower as well. Yes, there's a lot of ringers in our family and actually how my sister met her husband as well. So I think it's very much to say that there's a lot of ringers going around in the Roderick's.

[00:02:36] CATHY: And how did you find learning?

[00:02:40] EMILY: Interesting, I mean, I think I really enjoyed it. I think also, because I was lucky enough that of course, my Dad was teaching me and we had more access to the tower. So of course, I was able to go and have tied bell practice, much more often maybe than, I guess, the normal sort of practice once a week. So I think I would say maybe I had a fast track learning experience, which is good. But I guess also, there's a bit of a funny balance with being taught by a family member, I would say as well, because I'm sure I've spoken back to Dad or we've bickered about something whilst whilst I've been learning. Yeah, it's a double edged sword I'd say. But no, it was very enjoyable. And I think also, it's partly what I really enjoyed was the fact that my parents are both ringers. And the fact that I'm being taught this interesting and very cool skill that they're also have been a part of for many years, and being introduced to that sort of community, I think is a really important part of it as well. Yeah.

[00:03:46] CATHY: What do you like about ringing?

[00:03:50] EMILY: Something that kind of comes straight to mind is the sort of community aspect of bell ringing, which is something I really love, because I'm more of a nomadic ringer at the minute, I bounce around different towers in London. And what I really love is being able to come into any tower and feel completely welcome and supported. And it's a really lovely environment to come into. Even if you know, I regularly don't really know anyone when I've come to a new tower as well. So that I think is really an important part of it for me, and especially, I think it being something completely different to my day job, what I do as an artist, that it's really nice to come out of that environment and go into a tower and ring and learn a new method or yeah, just, I guess also meet completely different, interesting people along the way as well.

[00:04:40] EMILY: So that's, I would say one aspect that I think keeps coming up as well. I mean, even to the fact that I'd go back to my original, quote unquote, home tower when I visit my parents, and it's always a really lovely experience to come back and ring the bells that I learnt to ring on because it's only a ring of five so super small compared to what I'm used to ringing now. And yeah, it's always just like a really sweet reunion as well, which is always really nice. And I guess also as well, continuing on that sort of idea of community and visiting different towers when I've been on holiday in the UK, in, for example, Glasgow, let's say, and part of my trip, if I'm there for work or something, I can just go and ring. And that's really nice, and also still really welcoming as well.

[00:05:27] EMILY: I guess another thing that I really enjoy about ringing is, I think the sort of like unspoken, I don't know how best to explain this, because, of course, my background as well is in performance art, I think there's, I find something really interesting about the sort of collective performance that's going on in the tower, I think, because as well, that's something that only the ringers are seeing, because of course, people when I speak to people that don't ring, but I talk to them about ringing they're fascinated about the fact that there's a group of people in this tower pulling all these ropes for half an hour at a time or whatever. And I think I'm incredibly fascinated by that environment. And being there and watching the ringers as well, when they're ringing. I think it's all these sorts of subtle looks at each other, or, Oh, you need to dodge over me next kind of thing. But it's all in embodied movement rather than speech, which I just find really fascinating in this sort of collective understanding of this method. And they just get on and do it pretty much in silence. Okay, there's a conductor and things have to be said every so often. But I find that really fascinating. And think it's actually really beautiful as well to watch a group of ringers like that.

[00:06:49] EMILY: And then I guess also it's the tradition, growing up when I learnt to ring. I think there was maybe a bit of a push and pull the rebellious one. I mean, it wasn't that rebellious but as a teenager kind of going. Is ringing cool? I don't know, kind of thing. And yeah, I guess, trying to battle with enjoying this pastime, this sport, and then yeah, growing up and wanting to do other things, and perhaps not having many friends my age ringing with me and that sort of thing. That I think coming back to it now, or taking time away from it, and then being able to come back to ringing and say, "I really love this". Yeah, so I guess there's more traditional focus side of things when it comes to ringing. I really love this really incredibly old act, I don't even know the best way to describe it. But I think being able to carry that forward, this skill, there's so much around bell ringing as well. It's not just the act of ringing this church bell. I think that there's so much around it in terms of the community and what it is and making bells and blah, blah. It's a huge amount of tradition that I think has been carried through. And I love the fact that I've learned this skill, and I can take it on and share that.

[00:08:13] EMILY: But I think also that's then connected to the tradition also within my family as well. And I think that's really nice. And maybe that's where this idea of push and pull comes in as growing up thinking, "Oh, this is I think bell ringing is cool. But I don't really know. And I'm still trying to work out what I like, as a young adult. And oh, my parents taught me to do this. Is it cool? What do I think of ringing". And almost, it was really nice to go away from it. And take some time away from ringing, to be able to then come back in my own time and decide, I really want to ring and I really miss it as well. And I missed a lot of the sort of community and things that I spoke about before. And then I guess on top of that, having that connection back to my family is really nice. And maybe that's where the tradition comes in terms of the sort of family tree I guess of ringing. I mean, it goes back to my grandparents on my mother's side as well, they were ringers. I think that's something quite powerful as well. So yeah, that's that was a very long answer of why I like ringing and I feel like I could keep going. [laughs]

[00:09:33] CATHY: How would you describe your ringing level to another bell ringer, what sort of level are you at?

[00:09:38] EMILY: Oh, I normally would say I'm a steady treble to most doubles methods. I'm frustrated at myself because I feel like I've kept my ringing level at the same for quite a while because I feel quite comfortable being a steady treble to many doubles methods. But that kind of came with learning to ring on five, and even now I think when I ring it various places in London, I'm about to learn bobs to Plain bob doubles. And I think that's something that I just need to push through and learn. But that's yeah, how normally I'd explain where I'm at with ringing.

[00:10:20] CATHY: Are you setting yourself any other new challenges as far as your ringing?

[00:10:24] EMILY: Yeah I think the next big push is to finally just get through understanding bobs, but slightly different to that. I'm also really interested in learning about call changes, being able to call changes. But what I'd really love to be able to do is conduct and actually lead a band. But I'm aware that takes a bit more time. But I think I'm really interested about also being a woman and ringing and I want to learn to project my voice in these different sort of environments. And I think that maybe the conducting does trickle into my interest and crossover with art as well and performance within bell ringing. But yeah, that's perhaps a bit more of a long term goal when it comes to ringing.

[00:11:16] CATHY: What's the best piece of advice you've ever received with regard to your ringing?

[00:11:20] EMILY: Maybe it would be try as many different bells as possible, I think. And I feel like it's more to do with handling, the best advice that I'd have with handling is more to do with making sure that I'm pulling all the way from the top to the bottom, and that my arms and the rope is as straight as possible. But also, I'm sure that was explained in a much more fluid way to me. But yeah, I think, lots of different bells and trying to have the best handling possible. And then you can ring anywhere, hopefully.

[00:12:01] CATHY: Moving on to the fact that you're on the podcast team, what got you interested in working on the podcast?

[00:12:05] EMILY: My mum shared with me the episode about fixing the leaky pipeline in ringing. And because I think she'd already mentioned to me about this podcast anyway. And then she shared with me via email, that particular episode was like, "oh, you should really check this out". And especially because I think it chimed quite well with things that we've spoken about before in terms of ringing and women in towers etc. And yeah, I listened to that episode. And was just like, "oh, my gosh, I've needed this. I've needed this". And I think then it was partly a kind of crossover between. At this point, I had started thinking about the possibility of some sort of art project, body of work to do with bell ringing, but it was still being such an early stage. And I realized I needed to immerse myself a bit more within ringing again, to be able to move forward with that. And I remember also, at the end of the episode, you put a bit of a call out for I think transcribers and of course, also my day job, I work in accessibility and things. So I was like, I can do transcription for you like no problem. So yeah, I think I just sent you an email and said, I'm really interested. I'm a ringer. I'm an artist, I'm thinking about these things for a new project. I'd love to help. And I think that was, maybe what interested me was another way to access ringing as well, I think especially the breadth of episodes and different topics and things. I really wanted to learn more about ringing myself. And I feel like, for me actually being part of the team really helps with that. Yeah, more immersive then and yeah, it's just really enjoyable.

[00:13:54] CATHY: Of course, Emily Watts is the one that does the transcriptions now.

[00:13:58] EMILY: Yeah exactly. Cause I think maybe I was quite late getting in touch with you. And you're like, "oh, Emily Watts is doing this, but perhaps we could be involved in another way." Yeah, exactly. No, it was great. Yeah.

[00:14:11] CATHY: So moving on to your art. Can you tell me a bit about your background and how you got into art and art producing?

[00:14:17] EMILY: I went to art school, I went to Central St Martins in London to study fine art in 2015. And, yeah I mean, I'd always been interested in art, and especially had a focus at school around that as well and took it at A level and then through art school. I worked a lot in performance and more kind of community based, group based activities, and that sort of collective focused projects. If I can explain it in that way. I'll give some examples to come back to that anyway. But yeah, so I studied at art school for four years, so I graduated in 2019. And since I've had a range of jobs within the art sector, so from things like working front of house at places like the Barbican and National Portrait Gallery and things, I then moved into slightly more kind of Assistant Producer roles in a digital art gallery, Arebyte Gallery in London. And then now I work for an organization called Shape Arts. And I'm an Assistant Producer there. And we focus specifically on breaking down barriers to kind of accessing the art sector, specifically with a focus on disability. And yeah, we work both supporting disabled artists to access the arts in some way, both through bursary, producing resources, self employment, and things like that, but also at the other end, we're an access consultancy as well, in terms of teaching other organizations about making their galleries, activities, spaces more accessible. So that's kind of the crux of my job. But alongside that, I still work as an artist as well.

[00:16:18] CATHY: So I'm particularly interested in what you said about making art accessible. What's the big thing that people don't do, that they should do to make it accessible?

[00:16:27] EMILY: Oh, it's so broad, it's hard to choose one. I think the thing that comes most to mind is being able to provide art in different formats. For example, I've made an artist's film about something. Ideally, what would be really great in terms of expanding accessibility to that piece of work is being able to offer it with captions, either having captions already in the video or have it as an option, perhaps having an audio description version if you're visually impaired, so that things on screen can be described to you, having a BSL version. So you have a BSL interpreter in the video as well.-

[00:17:17] CATHY: bSL being British Sign Language.

[00:17:19] EMILY: Yeah, exactly. But of course, you'd have that if there's any spoken language in the video, and things like that. But of course, I recognize as well, me saying, you know, you could do all these extra things, that's also a lot more work to do. And I think that's where organizations like Shape Arts come in, because we have the resources, and the technology and the equipment to be able to do that for the artists we work with as well. But yeah, for example, like the fact that Fun with Bells podcast transcribes all their episodes, like that's a perfect example of expanding that access, just because we all process things differently. And there's being able to have different versions of things and different formats, just means that more people can experience your work as well.

[00:18:09] CATHY: What kind of art do you specialize in as an artist? And what inspires you to create it?

[00:18:18] EMILY: I would say I specialize in performance art.

[00:18:23] CATHY: What is performance art?

[00:18:24] EMILY: Oh, I wish you didn't ask me that! [laughs] . Performance art is an art form that usually uses our body in some way. And I say a body because it doesn't have to be me. If I'm making my art, it doesn't have to be me. Performance art is yeah, some sort of, quote unquote, performance that normally requires some sort of audience that could be online or afterwards or I don't know, I it's very hard to, I don't know why I'm finding it so hard to describe. But also I think it's quite vague because it could be anything. Performance art can range from something very mundane, like me sat in a chair, peeling an orange to a full operatic performance with a huge group of performers, I think. Yeah, in that sense. It could be some sort of action or event. Something, yeah, that needs to be seen. And I guess also, I would say more that I sit within live art. So performance that happens then, there and then rather than. Yeah, a lot of the time, I would say that I don't make performance art that is done recorded to be rewatched. Or in that sense that I need the audience there right then.

[00:19:56] CATHY: So going back to the type of art you specialize in is performance. What inspires you to create that?

[00:20:02] EMILY: Oh, so many different things. Because of the projects that I've worked on range from... I think it's what inspires me is anything that interests me in some way. And that could be something that I really love and enjoy and want to share. Or it also could be it makes me quite angry, or I guess something that creates quite a strong emotion is something that I like to work with, in that way.

[00:20:30] EMILY: For example, I've worked on a performance project with a friend of mine, Emily Warner, and we made a two hour performance of just things that we really enjoy about the color orange, and reflective materials and music that we love. And it was just this very rich, enjoyable two hours where there was a moment where I was blowing up an orange exercise ball. And then there's a moment where Emily's playing with a mobile phone and then putting on some reflective boots, it's just yeah, I think that was just like a very indulgent performance, where it was just a lot of things that we love. But then on the other end of that, I was part of a project called the Dazzle Club, which was an artist collective, looking at surveillance in public space, and specifically looking at introduction of facial recognition in surveillance systems. And this started before the pandemic. And the pandemic kind of shook things up a bit in terms of the progression of surveillance in London, we were looking specifically in London, but the project looked at critiquing surveillance in public space. And these forms of control, really. And so we'd organized monthly artists lead walks, it was an open invitation so anyone could attend. And it was this sort of choreographed, walk through a different part of London, usually that had some sort of link to surveillance or something around public space, navigating public space as well. And we'd paint our faces with blocks of color and different shapes because this was a quite outdated now, but a technique of applying different shapes and colors to your face, the form of digital camouflage in a way, that would break up your facial features in such a way that facial recognition wouldn't work. But again, a lot of my research previously to that project focused around surveillance and those sorts of technologies. And it almost just seemed like a natural progression at that point, to work on this collective, the Dazzle Club, what interests me in terms of performance art, it can be at both ends of the spectrum almost, and it's ever changing as well. I've worked on another project with swimming noodles, the like long swimming floats as well, just because I think they're a really crazy cool object to play with. So I've led movement workshops with people almost like a dance class, I guess, is maybe another way of explaining it in the park with a swimming noodle. So yeah, I mean, it's everything in anything. I think that's what I love about making art like that as well, because it is just an excuse to get really obsessed with something as well.

[00:23:24] CATHY: Can you walk me through your creative process? Is that something you can do in relation to the bell ringing one?

[00:23:30] EMILY: I think probably to distill down my creative process, especially in a way that I can also understand because I think sometimes it's quite a mystery. Normally, it would start with some sort of conversation with someone else, I feel that the interest that I have in something that is usually the topic of that piece of work is usually then exacerbated or made important and real through a conversation that I have with someone else. And that's normally either because they don't know about bell ringing, for example, and I talked to them about it, and then it's like, it almost awakened something in me and I'm like, "Oh, wow, okay, I need to run with this". I think it's almost in a way, I want to share something about something. So I want to share something about a topic and I think be it from that conversation, it then snowballs into both general research about whatever I want to make work about. And then more practical, movement based things. So for example, with bell ringing, I actually have a bell rope in my flat. Alongside me reading up about permutations and finding all these different methods and looking at the history of bells, I'm also then actually working hands on with this bell rope because I'm interested in understanding all the different aspects of bell ringing and not just in the tower. And so having these sort of tactile objects is definitely a very important part of the creative process for me. Yeah, usually there is an object of some sort, that's central to that idea. Something tactile. Yeah [laughs] . I think that's as much as the creative process, like I talked about!

[00:25:18] CATHY: How do you engage with your audience and build a community around your art?

[00:25:24] EMILY: That's a good question. I feel, interestingly, actually, a lot of the audience that I've built is surprisingly, I say surprisingly, I don't know, through Instagram, through social media really is the place where both I share a lot about what I'm making, what I'm doing. But also, it's a really important place to network, I find that in the past it's where I've gotten pieces of work, or different sort of classes and workshops that I've led has actually come through the networks I've built in Instagram. But that's also like, alongside being able to be present at different events, and also the community that I built in art school as well, like very much there's artists that I'm still connected with, that I studied with, and that links to that. But also I mean, in terms of the work that I do as an arts producer that naturally feeds into also my network as an artist as well, that all of these things are interlinked, even if I'm scouting and searching for artists to support through my day job, that's still just building a network and conversation for the work that I make as an artist as well.

[00:26:40] CATHY: So you've mentioned Instagram, what's your Instagram handle? If anybody wants to look you up?

[00:26:44] EMILY: My Instagram handle is @emilyhrodders, that's r o double d e r s.

[00:26:52] CATHY: Right. We'll put that in the show notes as well.

[00:26:56] CATHY: The bell ringing project.

[00:26:58] EMILY: I know Yeah. I was about to say: Can we please talk about the bell ringing project?! [laughs] I know I've touched on it a bit. But to talk more specifically about... Do you just want me to talk about it?

[00:27:10] CATHY: Yes. Can you tell me more about the bell ringing project?

[00:27:13] EMILY: Yes. So I am lucky enough to have received some funding through Arts Council England, which is the main funding body for artists in England. And that's a sort of research and development grant that I propose to create a new performance work centered around bell ringing. And I don't really know what that is at this stage. But that's almost the exciting part of it as well. But I have about 10 to 12 months to just immerse myself in both ringing, progressing my ringing as well. And also then learning about different ways that I could explore ringing through performance for other people. And I'm still trying to work out the best way to do that. And there's a lot of questions that seem to come up. But I think what brought me to proposing this project, again was more around the things that interest me about bell ringing that I touched on earlier, I think. Both this very performative aspect of bell ringing, especially in the tower, I just find it incredibly fascinating as the sort of repetitive movement, and also this very like meditative state that you can get in when you're ringing as well, that also connected with the sound, connected with the history of bells and the history of bell ringing. And then, on top of that, this very heavy community aspect of bell ringing, I've really just felt that there's so much to work with, that I really wanted to start making work about it. And I can also see this very much going further than the 10/12 months of this research grant I have, I can really see this just being an immense body of work that will take on years, and years, even to the point where I was thinking, "Could this become a PhD in some way?" So we'll see. But even down to things like the bell ropes themselves, the ringing clothing that people have, I mean, I've got an embroidered hoodie and a T shirt as well, so many different aspects, that really, this research time was almost to really delve deep into bell ringing and look at it from an artist perspective as well, which I think was the important thing to really focus on ringing and how I could bring that to a non-ringing audience as well. Because I think that's something that I found interesting in terms of the conversations that I'd have with artists about ringing that aren't necessarily in the ringing community. And it definitely feeds into the research that I want to do. But at the minute, it still seems quite vague, as well, which is exciting.

[00:30:10] CATHY: How far are you through the first 12 month period?

[00:30:12] EMILY: I'm about a third of the way through.

[00:30:15] CATHY: And so you're still in the research stage at the moment?

[00:30:18] EMILY: Exactly. So through the plan that I proposed, it's a third research, then a bit of experimenting on my own. And when I say experimenting, more movement based experiments and performance tests, and then ideally, I want to work with other performers, other ringers, other artists to create some sort of performance with other people. Because I think when I started the work, I was like, yeah, it could just be something that I do. But actually, I think, again, the kind of community group performance aspect of ringing really needs to come through with the work, and therefore I absolutely have to work with other people, which is very exciting, because I don't know who that's going to be yet.

[00:31:02] CATHY: So you're looking for people?

[00:31:03] EMILY: Yes, this can also function as a bit of a call out for that. Yeah, I'm looking for ringers who are interested in performance. I'm looking for artists who are interested in ringing. Any sort of crossover or none of the above it's, yeah, I'm really excited to see where it takes me.

[00:31:23] CATHY: So you said it's very vague at the moment, but what sorts of outputs might you produce?

[00:31:30] EMILY: Oh, good question. I can already see that there's going to be a range of outputs as well. And I think that's partly because of how I work. But I'm imagining some sort of performance as a group of, quote unquote, ringers, whether there actual ringers or not, I don't think that necessarily matters, but I'm thinking whether it needs to be in a tower or not? Or whether it It needs to be near bells or not? if there needs to be sound or not? But there's definitely a group performance, that will be part of my body of work for sure. There might also be some shorter video works I'm imagining. But that would probably stem more from more simple performance tests that I've done. Even I can imagine some sort of interviews, and more long form conversations that are recorded, would come out of this as well, even down to prints. And maybe I'm thinking even some sort of embroidery work, but even the methods, like in Diagrams, I love looking through Diagrams, because I just find all the methods really beautiful as the sort of line drawing in a way. And I really like to work with that in some way, as well. So yeah, there's a lot that's going to come out of this at some point.

[00:32:52] CATHY: And then where would your ideal place be for it to be seen?

[00:32:55] EMILY: I think the ideal place that I'd like this to be seen, would have to depend on what I've made. So if it's a performance, ideally, it might be part of some sort of performance festival, or it's in a gallery somewhere, I think the performance will be very connected to a location. So I'm imagining that it might be in a tower somewhere. So I have to think more about logistics of that. But the rest of the work, ideally, I'd have an exhibition, that would be great. But of course, I will still also then circulate things online as well. But yes, that would be the next stage is finding a space, but I don't know where that will be.

[00:33:36] CATHY: So the final two questions are apart from where you regularly ring, what's your favorite ring of bells and why?

[00:33:43] EMILY: After a bit of thought, I'd actually have to say St. John's in Hackney, in London, it was actually the first tower that I came to as a visitor once I've moved to London. And one it felt like a very supportive tower, especially for learners as well, really, really welcoming. And I remember specifically one practice night, I can't remember whose birthday it was. But after practice, we were very lucky to be able to go up onto the church roof. I think also because at St. John's, they've got quite a large flat church roof as well. So it's a bit safer to access. And to get out there you climb, I think through the belfry and where the bells are. And then you're faced with this gorgeous view of Hackney. And I think that was a very special moment of wow, like, these are the sorts of places that I wouldn't otherwise be able to access, I think by being a bell ringer. I'm not even attached to the church and so it's even more interesting to be a ringer in these spaces and be able to see the city in a different way.

[00:35:02] CATHY: And has anything remarkable happened to you that wouldn't have happened if you hadn't taken up bell ringing?

[00:35:10] EMILY: I don't know I find this question hard.

[00:35:15] CATHY: Yes. Yes, most people do.

[00:35:19] EMILY: Yeah, I think more than anything. It's more sort of continuous connection of meeting new people through bell ringing and I don't know whether I can say this is remarkable. But I think what I find most exciting, that's connected to the fact that I've taken up bell ringing is the people that I've met, I think it really boils down to that and that I've learned a lot from different people through bell ringing and been connected to other people through bell ringing. Even now David Bagley connected me to some bell ringers in Italy. Which is super exciting, and really, like really great. And that's something that otherwise I completely wouldn't have done. And I think just bell ringing has definitely brought out a different sort of confidence in me in terms of building new connections with people. So yeah, yeah, I think that's what I'd say.

[00:36:18] CATHY: Thank you to my guest, Emily Roderick, for telling us about her life as an artist, her ringing career and the special arts project that she's doing on bell ringing at the moment. Thanks, Emily. If you've enjoyed this episode, then please share it. This podcast was put together by a team. Special thanks go to Anne Tansley Thomas, Emily Roderick, John Gwynne, Emily Watts, Leslie Belcher and the society of the Cambridge Youths for the recording of their ringing.

[00:36:50] CATHY: [Bells ringing rounds]

performance

Emily brings bell ringing to the art world

Cool Kenyan Ringers from Kilifi Bring Bell Ringing Back Home